144000 men to make it to heaven!

Best Gore Forums Societally Relevant Gender Studies 144000 men to make it to heaven!

This topic contains 42 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  illegalsmile55 1 month ago.

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  • #102082

    This is what it says about the 144000 men who are supposed to make it into heaven to rule over mankind. I’m particularly interested in you all’s input on the part about women.

    Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads. 2 And I heard a sound from heaven like the roar of rushing waters and like a loud peal of thunder. The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their harps. 3 And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. 4 These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they remained virgins. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among mankind and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb. 5 No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless.

    There it is…I take it that in Gods eyes its best that we don’t DEFILE ourselves with women.

  • #102083

    Not sure if I did it right…man in the topic

  • #102141

    PsychoTheRapist
    Participant

    Something to take into account is that Revelation is very symbolic. In Revelation 14:1-4, the 144,000 standing with the Lamb have been “bought from the earth. These are the ones that did not defile themselves with women; in fact, they are virgins.” This means they have an intimate relationship with Jesus, and it’s a lot more spiritually intimate than the relationship many others have. After all, they are the only ones able to master the “new song.” (Re 14:1-4) These are the “bride” of the Lamb (Re 21:9), spiritual people who stand on the heavenly Mount Zion with him. So ‘not defiling themselves with women’ along with being “virgins” wouldn’t mean that none of them had ever been married, because the bible doesn’t forbid people – even the 144,000 – to marry. (1Ti 3:2; 4:1, 3) Neither would it imply that all the 144,000 were men, for “there is neither male nor female” as far as the spiritual relationship of the 144,000 is concerned. (Ga 3:28) Therefore the “women” are likely symbolic women such as religious organisations like Babylon the Great and her ‘daughters,’ and other false religious organisations. Joining and taking part in the ceremonies of these religious organisations would prevent you from being spotless in God’s eyes. (Re 17:5) This symbolic description also lines up perfectly with the requirement in the Law that the high priest of Israel only takes a virgin for his wife. Jesus Christ is God’s great High Priest so the 144,000 would have to be spiritual virgins in order to take part in the marriage of the Lamb. —Le 21:10, 14; 2Co 11:2; Heb 7:26.

    Revelation is a book in the bible that can be very difficult to interpret and to throw a blanket statement based upon just a single verse isn’t wise. Cross-referencing the scriptures is extremely important when trying to interpret what is being said as it is likely that you could find any single verse in the bible which would suit and back up virtually any random statement or belief.

    I’m not God, I’m not Jesus and I’m certainly no Prophet but I do like to make sure of things when it comes to the scriptures. Am I right? Who knows? Only God will answer that question but in the meantime I’ll continue to research anything that’s put before me and I know that ALL answers can be found in the bible if you search diligently. After all, it’s God’s word so you can expect it to be complete and accurate. 🙂

    • #102143

      Yes it can be interpreted in those ways…or it can be interpreted as is. I know revelations has been viewed as very symbolic. But what if this one scripture is to be viewed as is. I’ve read the Bible and have researched it. Your take on 1 Timothy is about being an overseer…but if it is crossed referenced with Galatians 28 and is fit to do so then why is it required for only men to take this role? Another thing is if you read 1 corinthians 7….you will see that Paul talks of remaining single so that you will focus on things of the spirit as he did. Now I doubt he was out sleeping around as he was able to control his passion. The only reason for marriage was if one could not control their passion…the reason being they would focus on things of the world to please their partner. I know the greater multitude that is supposed to inherit the earth might be less accountable but the 144000 overseers should be very close to Jesus. But how close could they be if they felt they needed to take a wife and God and Jesus weren’t entirely enough. Also even King Solomon thought to be the most wise said there was not one upright woman. And even so he let them lead him astray and defile Jerusalem with temples to other Gods. As you said we can all find scriptures to cross reference to suit what we want to be true…this could very well be true of your interpretation. It could be true of mine. Neither of us knows…but I’ve read the scriptures a lot as well and I’ve studied with many people. One thing I’ve found is that everyone thinks and wants to believe they are the 144000…so they paint revelations in a way that makes it appear to be symbolic in places where it could very well just be cold hard fact. I don’t know the truth…I can speculate and I can try to understand…but I guess the only person that can really understand is the one that knows the secret of the number of the beast…as well as Jesus and Yahweh…but I do appreciate your take on it.

  • #102144

    itsplaster
    Participant

    The Bible contradicts itself many times. If you look at Genesis, it says it’s not good for a man to be alone. So much to the extent, that God created a mate for him. The Bible has been revised, rewritten and basically crafted to please the writer. I don’t think it’s a reliable source for living. But, to each his own.

    • #102147

      PsychoTheRapist
      Participant

      @itsplaster

      Many who say that the bible contradicts itself are often comparing the Old Testament and the New Testament, the prime example usually being “Eye for an eye” and “Turn the other Cheek.” The OT applied to the Jewish nation and the Law though its principles are still valid. The NT applies to Christianity and it’s a completely different kettle of fish. If you have anything in particular you’d like to ask about just tag me and ask and I’ll do my best to answer you using the scriptures. 🙂

      • #102150

        itsplaster
        Participant

        @psychotherapist I was referring to Genesis 2:18. Did God make Eve and then decide it was a mistake? lol This is kind of different than OT and NT arguments. This referred to the creation of woman as a mate for man.

        • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by  itsplaster.
      • #102153

        PsychoTheRapist
        Participant

        @itsplaster

        So what are you asking me? Did God create woman as a complement to a man? The answer is yes. Further than that I don’t know where you’re going.

      • #102154

        itsplaster
        Participant

        @psychotherapist My original reply was to JSM. I was noting that God said man needed woman. His OP seem to say the opposite. That was all.

      • #102155

        PsychoTheRapist
        Participant

        @itsplaster

        Well you were right in what you said: God did indeed say that it was not good for a man to be alone plus, obviously, he had a desire for the human race to populate the earth so He created the woman in order that humans could procreate amongst themselves. Nowhere in the scriptures does God say that that should end. Any celibacy amongst humans is a choice that is made on a personal level. The apostle Paul merely stated that it was a good thing if someone could abstain from that kind of life if they were able to and concentrate on the spiritual side of things. He also said that if they couldn’t make room for that then they should marry which was also good.

        Any idea that ministers must be celibate (hello Catholic Church) is shot down in 1 Tim 3:2, 12 where it states ministers and their subordinates should be the husband of one wife. God knows human tendencies and also knows about sex drives seeing He put them there in the first place so he gave the marriage arrangement which enabled relief from these drives and also gave a means to reproduce. On a side note: if everyone stuck to no sex outside of marriage and also stayed faithful to the partner they do have, there would be no STDs in the world. Seems like a wise God to me. 🙂

      • #102158

        itsplaster
        Participant

        @psychotherapist Well, I’m an atheist anyway, Lol. But I can still spot contradictions within text even if I find it to be partially fiction. Just like I might argue interpretations of “A Clockwork Orange” etc. Literature is always interesting. A book is a book. What I don’t argue is the actual existence of God. Those who believe are decided and those who don’t (me) are decided. It’s a useless argument.

      • #102160

        PsychoTheRapist
        Participant

        @itsplaster

        Absolutely correct; there is no proof. Whether you believe that God created the universe or whether it came about by a “Big Bang”, both require faith because there is no scientific proof for either, only theories. Personally I do believe there is a Creator and I could go into great depth as to why I believe that and not believe the Big Bang theory but it’s pointless. We must look at things and decide for ourselves.

        As I said to Mark in the other thread, I’m not here to open a Sunday School, nor am I here to preach. However, I consider myself to be well versed in this subject and I’m prepared to listen to people and answer questions for anyone with an interest and I will do it in a totally non-judgemental way. I will neither ridicule nor chastise anyone for their beliefs or non-belief and anything I say about the subject will come only from the scriptures. My own personal opinions will not come into any debate unless they are asked for; even then I may not answer. 🙂

      • #102169

        itsplaster
        Participant

        @psychotherapist I think agnostic would be a truer term for me. I don’t take a hard stance on the Big Bang and I don’t try to disrupt people believing what they choose. I think there’s something but I don’t think it’s the Christian God. Maybe a mix of many gods. Maybe aliens. I just find the Bible so cold and unfair. I just can’t believe that’s love.

      • #102170

        PsychoTheRapist
        Participant

        @itsplaster

        That’s ok, girl, you don’t have to explain to me 🙂 Just keep an open mind because you never know what you might come across in the future.

        With regard to the cold feeling from the bible, you’re not the only one who gets that feeling. Many ask, if God is so loving, why did he allow and even condone and encourage some of the things that went on in the OT? The difficulty they have comes from the fact that many have no idea about the full meaning of the scriptures. They think the bible is just 66 books that have been put in one cover which is just not true. It is all connected from page 1 to page 1500 (or whatever amount of pages it is) and there is real meaning behind it all; unfortunately people don’t see it, including the vast majority of the clergy. It’s only when getting the full understanding of it all that things fall into place and everything becomes a lot clearer. But like I said, I’m not going to preach but I’m here if you want to tag me and ask something. 😀

      • #102171

        girl or boy
        Participant

        I’d say that there is feck all people on this planet that truly understand the bible, the top top rabbis being them and a few others. I mean you’d need extensive knowledge of ancient hebrew and greek, as what we read in english just doesn’t compare. Plus you’d wanna be an expert in symbolism, kabalah, the ancient mystery schools, history, gnosticism, even alchemy. Sure didn’t the bloody book drive Mr. Newton round the twist, and he was a clever boy. What they teach in church is for the profane, and that’s how they like to keep it.

        I love how the tags on this thread are: feminism, pussy pass and rekt.

      • #102172

        itsplaster
        Participant

        The tags are hilarious. 😂 I agree that “understanding” the Bible is almost nonexistent. And there’s no way a story stays true to the original for years and years. By the third retelling, a story has already changed. Nevermind, hundreds of retellings.

      • #102176

        PsychoTheRapist
        Participant

        @itsplaster

        Remember the Dead Sea Scrolls found in 1947? Dated around 150 BC iirc. In amongst them was a copy of the book of Isaiah and it was virtually identical to what we have today, just some small differences attributed to possible copy errors.

      • #102180

        itsplaster
        Participant

        @psychotherapist There are more versions than just KJV I mean. Different translations.

      • #102184

        PsychoTheRapist
        Participant

        @itsplaster

        Ugh, the KJV! So many problems with that version, especially the New KJV. The best translations are those that have been directly translated from the old scrolls rather than a translation of a translation if you get my meaning. I also prefer the up-to-date versions where modern English is used instead of all the thees, thous and thines. 😀

      • #102173

        PsychoTheRapist
        Participant

        @1purple8

        You’re right, what they teach in christian churches is plain wrong. As far as the scriptures go I have a fine understanding of them or I wouldn’t have put myself up here to have potshots taken at me if I didn’t.

        With regard to the tags, JSM made the thread claiming that only men were part of the 144,000 thus having a dig at feminism, denying women a pussy pass into the select group and considering them ‘rekt’ because of it. Pretty obvious if you read his post.

      • #102178

        girl or boy
        Participant

        clearly obvious, yes

      • #102179

        itsplaster
        Participant

        Agree on why it was tagged like that. Still hilarious. So Holy. Lol Not exactly the most Christian wording.

      • #102174

        illegalsmile55
        Participant

        Sometimes the tags are the best part.

      • #102177

        PsychoTheRapist
        Participant

        @illegalsmile55

        Hello, Miss Smiley….where you been hiding the last few days? 😀

      • #102181

        illegalsmile55
        Participant

        @psychotherapist
        I’ve been a busy girl! Have you been behaving yourself?

      • #102182

        PsychoTheRapist
        Participant

        @illegalsmile55

        Yeah I’ve been good apart from ruffling a few feathers in the comments 😀

        Beaker is still down on the dumps though 🙁

      • #102185

        illegalsmile55
        Participant

        @psychotherapist
        Feathers are meant to be ruffled..

        Poor Beaker, he needs a massage and a good meal.

      • #102186

        PsychoTheRapist
        Participant

        @illegalsmile55

        He’s just had a good meal (mmmmm…..belly-pork) but a massage would be just what the doctor ordered. Far too much tension in the body isn’t good for you.

      • #102187

        illegalsmile55
        Participant

        @psychotherapist

        Damn…I’m always late.
        I’ll give the beak a rub, but I will want one in return…just thinking about his flappy, fat fingers rubbing on me….heaven. 😉

      • #102190

        PsychoTheRapist
        Participant

        @illegalsmile55

        Ha ha…you crack me up, Miss Smiley. Actually I was thinking of giving Beaker a week or two off and have someone else grace my BG posts. Your massage would have to come from his manly fingers instead. 😉

      • #102191

        illegalsmile55
        Participant

        @psychotherapist

        So… you’re going to put your pic up? I dare you. I double dog dare you. I wanna see what attracts all those young ladies!

      • #102192

        PsychoTheRapist
        Participant

        @illegalsmile55
        <———
        This is what attracted all the young ladies 🙂

      • #102193

        illegalsmile55
        Participant

        @psychotherapist

        Lol..no doubt! I would take a rubbing from him; but my heart belongs to Beaker.

      • #102194

        PsychoTheRapist
        Participant

        @illegalsmile55

        Beaker says he loves you <3

      • #102195

        girl or boy
        Participant

        He’s old enough to be your daddy. 😂😂😂

      • #102196

        illegalsmile55
        Participant

        @1purple8

        Beaker? Wow….he is ancient!

        Smiley and Beaker sitting in a tree..

      • #102198

        girl or boy
        Participant

        Ancient! Like like the bible, nearly?

      • #102199

        girl or boy
        Participant

        in an tree

      • #102201

        illegalsmile55
        Participant

        Like dinosaurs. :-\

      • #102250

        Lmao…I didn’t know how to tag it…I didn’t know what these forums are nasty of….I FUCKED UP!!!

      • #102249

        I agree a lot is lost in translation..

  • #102202

    JMCR
    Participant

    2 dinosaurs sitting in a tree, one with megasaurass.

    • #102251

      illegalsmile55
      Participant

      That’s what happens when you hook up with a Penisaurus Erectus. 😛

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