August 2, 2018 at 1:55 pm #133344
Firstly, the Titanic has 14 lifeboats, the two emergency boats, and two of the Engelhardt boats, these were all were launched. These had a capacity of 1,084 passengers. There was enough lifeboat capacity for ALL women and children (534 persons total), AND 550 men as well.
Obviously, many boats were not loaded to full capacity, the question is why?
The Women and Children First (WACF) mantra and chivalry came together at the wrong time to ensure that men were REFUSED entry to boats even when there were empty spaces and no women remaining to fill them. Here is an excerpt from Encyclopedia Titanica. “There was room for fourteen more after the last woman had found her place, and they all pleaded to let the men take the empty seats. But the Captain said that he would not allow it. I was frantic. There was that boat, ready to be lowered into the water and only half full. Then the order came to lower. The men were pleading for permission to step in, and one came forward to take a place next to his wife. I heard a shot and I am sure it was he that went down.”
Many women and children were simply unwilling to be lowered 65 feet from the boat deck to the water, due to fear. Some of the men put in boats were put there simply to show it was safe, and allay the fears of other passengers (women).
If the boat crews had loaded one man for each woman or child loaded, they could have expected to save ALL passangers.
And women think they were oppressed back then…………
August 2, 2018 at 7:58 pm #133394Lord WankdustParticipant
It is just the same with the wagon trains which crossed America before the days of the Iron Horse. When the wagon trains were attacked by the indigenous Americans it was usually the case that white settler men were killed but women were spared. Unless they were attacked by the Gay First Nations Tribes (the Browndicks, the Doesn’t-Like-Splinges or the Craftybutchers). However Gay Tribal attacks were rare as they were mostly bumming in their teepees and creating fancy scatter cushions and knick-knacks. The women surviving regular Hetero-Tribal attacks on their wagon trains always got free sex from all the indigenous American men. They also got all the Buffalo Gristle they could eat. It is hard to know what women complaining about. Indeed few of them ever complained.
I have heard that the Titanic was chock-ablock with women going to America for that very purpose, as the last wagon trains were about to leave. This goes some way to explaining why there were so many women survivors from the Titanic. The Titanic was brimming with fizzing splinges heading over to get themselves some of that Geronimo Boney-Maroney.
From such folly Tragedy is born.
August 3, 2018 at 1:16 am #133457
The armed guards actually murdered men trying to get on lifeboats………….
August 3, 2018 at 1:18 am #133458
Paul is no MGTOW but he is Right.
August 3, 2018 at 2:02 am #133468
Remember this scene in the movie where Mr Ismay gets on a lifeboat and gets pure stinking looks from the first officer?
That always stuck with me as being so utterly unfair that a man would have such shame and regret over saving his own life. It really annoyed me.
August 3, 2018 at 4:27 am #133499
I should point out there are no official rules regarding women and children first, it is only a chivalry code of conduct but the captain can determine whatever as he holds absolute powers aboard a ship. A ship should have 125% life boats eliminating such an issue, but yes, the Titanic didn’t have enough life boats.
As for the Costa Concordia, a huge cruise ship that capsized in Italy in 2012, the captain actually took a off as mentioned in the video above. The coast guard on contacting him tried their best to get him back on board but leave very clear their priorities… Its worth mentioning fights broke out when men tried to board lifeboats and many newspapers shamed men also.Cruse ships are often loaded with elderly people… those should have priority, along with kids and disable people.
August 3, 2018 at 5:17 am #133522
@masterplan I would have no objection to children, the elderly and/or disabled being evacuated before me in an emergency, in principle. Healthy, able bodied adults have the best chance of surviving, regardless of gender so that makes sense to me. That being said, if the shit absolutely hit the fan, I would find no shame in climbing over anyone order to save myself or my loved ones, lol. No one should be ashamed of saving their own life.
August 3, 2018 at 6:05 am #133537
Well… In this particular case of Concordia the ship was very close to the coast… there was no lifeboats to everyone since once the ship capsized… nearly half of then got submerged. Is a matter of who can swim and who can not… now you don’t swim.. and you see loads of chick boarding determined to save their belonging and not wet their shoes … you say fuck that! Lol
Sorry again for mixing the posts… the titanic was indeed much more savage… and despite in less numbers women can be very noble and courageous as well… but is the thought of boats with empty seats… and able ladies who just don’t want to wet themselves that can piss people off.
August 3, 2018 at 6:30 am #133539Empty soulParticipant
“That being said, if the shit absolutely hit the fan, I would find no shame in climbing over anyone order to save myself”.
That’s the stance I often take during the Christmas shopping period, lol.
Jokes aside, in the absence of social stigma and retaliation most people will put their own survival before anybody else’s. It’s in our nature.
For example, It is very common for someone to run out of a burning building before stopping to worry about everybody else still trapped inside.
August 3, 2018 at 6:42 am #133542
@empty-soul Regulations actually demand you to do just that… just press the fire alarm on the way out, or else you may just become another victim for the fire department to deal with …and some people are more altruistic than others, some more courageous… and others just dumb. 🙂
“there is a fine line between bravery and stupidity”
August 3, 2018 at 5:09 am #133519
Sorry @lady-lexis, I was suppose to acknowledge and show respect for your post, but end up placing my own post instead… so I have to mention I was not really responding to you on the above, but very nice of you. That said… here follows a few newspapers criticizing these men as I mentioned.
August 10, 2018 at 1:07 pm #135404Mr SpockParticipant
Bruce (‘Brute’) Ismay is a dude.
September 26, 2018 at 3:22 pm #143726itsplasterParticipant
@lady-lexis I realize this is an old thread but the reason that guy got dirty looks is because of his possible hand in the sinking. That was supposed to be Bruce Ismay, Chairman of White Star Line and it was testified that he pushed the captain to go faster than he should to arrive early in NY and make headlines. In his case, it was who he was not his gender.
Now I totally believe men were shot and not allowed to board lifeboats and many were half-full. I’m not disputing that.
September 26, 2018 at 8:40 pm #143774
Oh I agree he got the looks because of who he was but also because of how he was expected to act as a man in this situation. Captain Smith went down with the ship, Thomas Andrews, the shipbuilder went down with the ship. Both were arguably in some small way responsible for the sinking of the ship but were portrayed as brave, heroic, masculine figures for simply choosing not to leave and try to save themselves. Y’know, like they had done the “manly” thing in deciding to die. The 1912 British inquiry into the sinking concluded that Ismay had worked alongside the crew to evacuate passengers before taking a seat in the last lifeboat to leave on the starboard side. By all accounts, that’s more than Smith and Andrews did.
And yet, he became a character to ridicule as a coward and villain in nearly every sebsequent film or series about the Titanic. Not only, I think, because he was an easy scapegoat in that he was the highest ranking White Star Line official to survive the sinking; there was a relatable narrative about privilege and power there but because he was a man in a position of authority who did not do the manly, chivalrous thing that was expected of him. Had there been any female executives at the time, would she have been villified for evacuating herself? Presumably not, because y’know, “women and children first”…
September 27, 2018 at 4:59 am #143828itsplasterParticipant
@lady-lexis I’m not much of a Titanic enthusiast so I don’t know his true story. I just meant in that depiction it was about his position and not gender. The movie is a lot of fiction, I’m sure.
I don’t know if the other two were considered manly or just to blame. When I watched that version of the movie, I didn’t think manly or brave; just guilt-ridden. Many may have considered them manly. I personally didn’t get that feeling but again, it’s a fictional account in many ways.
August 3, 2018 at 4:35 am #133505Empty soulParticipant
Did you know that the feminists and suffragettes, including the likes of Emmeline Pankhurst, took part in the order of the white feather during world war 1.
They handed out white feathers to men who had not yet enlisted so as to shame them for not doing so.
They also lobbied to institute an involuntary universal draft for all males, which included for boys who were too young to actually vote and fight.
I guess in hindsight what they actually wanted to do was to reduce male presence in society via the death machine called war so that they could take the newly available jobs and show that women could work just as well as the men and also so that they could have a stronger bargaining position for women’s rights once the post war numbers had tallied out.
I can’t deny that women did in fact gain many rights in England as a result of the above tactics however the point I wish to make is that for most working class people feminism has always been extremist in nature and has always been at their expense for the most part. Sending working class women’s men off to war to die for example only acted to further impoverish those working class women, which wasn’t very sisterly of them.
Feminism was always very much a middle and upper class movement that worked with and used lower class people as fodder. The fact that they fought on a platform of rights for women to purchase property in their own name and then for social and voting rights only for those women who owned property in their own name ran roughshod over the rights of lower class women who would never have been able to afford to own property at that time.
Now. To finally get to the fucking point and explain what the hell my rant has to do with the Titanic,
Well, as it turns out the Titanic sinking almost ruined the feminist movement. The Titanic disaster came at the worst time for the suffragette movement because the Conciliation Bill, which was supposed to give some women the vote ended up being defeated as a result of the anger felt towards the sheer hypocrisy of the women onboard for accepting with absolute ease the preferential treatment given to them for lifeboats, which included a suffragette or two and women’s rights activist Margaret Brown. In the very least the down-voters used the situation to their advantage even if they didn’t personally give a shit.
What made it worse was that it was class based. Lower class women onboard were denied seating in favour of the upper class ones which accounted for a social divide in death rate among women.
The Public Records Office shows that in first class over a third of the men, almost all of the women and all the children survived. In second class it was less than 10 percent of the men, 84 percent of the women and all the children but in third class 12 percent of the men, 55 percent of the women and less than one in three of the children survived.
Feminists at the time responded to this argument in two ways, some feminists argued that since women are the child bearers and carers they should get special treatment in these types of situations whereas other feminists argued that the women should have refused to get onboard the lifeboats and should have demanded equality with the men. All of them accepted the class divide though, not all women were equal in their eyes after all.
The above caused a split to take place within feminism and put them back a decade.
Fast forward to the present and feminism is still hypocritical and still equally extremist even if it does acquire results at times.
I must add, even though I know this will get me branded a pussy slave, many working class women are not part of the feminist movement. It is still mostly a middle class movement today as it was back then and they tend to drown out the rest with their amplified screeching.
August 3, 2018 at 5:08 am #133518
August 4, 2018 at 9:53 am #133857
Most men could not vote back then either. I totally debunk Pankhurst and the white feather campaign in my video series here……………Women only see how they are disadvantaged even when most men are as well.
My like to dislike ratio is astounding. Purely organic traffic and that speaks more than anyone from these threads could.
August 5, 2018 at 4:44 am #134029
August 10, 2018 at 1:11 pm #135406Mr SpockParticipant
If it was me there in 1912, I would have made a dash for the lifeboats. Fuck all that chivalry nonsense, if there were spaces in the lifeboats.
August 10, 2018 at 2:21 pm #135423
Spock, Understood. But the armed men guarding the boats would have shot you dead and threw you onto the pile of other dead men and adolescent boys who tried that.
September 26, 2018 at 7:27 am #143682Lord WankdustParticipant
This kinda reminds me of the current spate of women who claim that they have been denied rights because Britain did not pass the Representation of the People Act until 1918 and didn’t extend universal suffrage until 1928. What is never mentioned about the 1918 Act (and what women don’t sing about) is that it gave ordinary working class men the right to vote for the first time. Many of those ordinary working class men had fought, perished, been injured and driven insane by the horrors of the First World War. The rights-claiming and whiney – protesting Suffragettes were busy handing out white feathers to brave men who opposed the slaughter and stood up for their beliefs and opposed the War Machine. But that’s some women for you…
The Representation of the People Act 1918 was 100 years ago!
Get over it ladies!
Young hitler basement-dwelling cut-and-paster… The Titanic sank 106 years ago!
Get over it dirty nappy boy!
September 27, 2018 at 9:01 am #143862
Lol wankdick. Your rebuttals are pathetic at most. By your logic, you should get over the immigrants invading. You are pathetic slimeball who denies victim status to male victims and are indeed an enemy to men and boys. Now get your ass back to work cuck, the dindus and the welfare moms need your tax dollars. Slave!
September 27, 2018 at 9:26 am #143867
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